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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Lieber Herr Witte,<br>
<br>
ich hatte auf der RDA List einen speziellen Fall diskutiert, weil
ich diesen nochmal in der AG RDA besprechen möchte. Deshalb habe
ich bemüht, die angloamerikanische Praxis herauszufinden (was wie
immer nicht so einfach ist). Es handelte es sich also nicht um
eine grundsätzliche Diskussion von Zählungen bei fR. Sie können
das gerne verfolgen und auch gerne mitreden, aber ich verstehe
nicht so richtig, wieso Sie einen Teil davon nun hier auf diese
Liste forwarden.<br>
<br>
Zu Ihrer konkreten Frage: M.E. ist Ihre Lösung schlüssig, denn die
"1" ist ja wohl eine Heftzählung und muss dann vor der
chronologischen Bezeichnungen stehen, die in Klammern zu setzen
ist. Ich bin aber für diesen Bereich keine Expertin. Vielleicht
kann jemand von den KollegInnen, die jeden Tag mit Zählungen zu
tun haben, noch etwas dazu beitragen.<br>
<br>
Ansonsten bitte ich um Verständnis dafür, dass ich nicht die
persönliche Verantwortung für alle RDA-Regeln übernehmen kann ;-)<br>
<br>
Viele Grüße<br>
Heidrun Wiesenmüller <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 26.05.2016 um 11:09 schrieb <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rda-info-liste@lists.dnb.de">rda-info-liste@lists.dnb.de</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-222fe9e5-1067-4614-8e77-a947ace6a93c-1464253764894@3capp-gmx-bs45"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Sehr geehrte Frau Wiesenmüller,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>leider verhandeln Sie die Frage Numbering of monographic
series in Übersee, wo wir doch hier vor Ort mit dem RDA-Berg
a la Sisyphos zu kämpfen haben (auch wenn hinterher wirklich
nur ein Maus herauskommt).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Vielleicht haben Sie einen Vorschlag wie diese Vorlage
nach RDA im Katalog aussehen könnte</div>
<div>LITURGIE UND KULTUR</div>
<div>7. Jahrgang 1-2016</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Hier eine Kopie vom Titelblatt</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ekd.de/liturgische_konferenz/images/Covre_1-2016.jpg"
target="_blank">http://www.ekd.de/liturgische_konferenz/images/Covre_1-2016.jpg</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>und Inh.-Verz. mit der Jahrgangs-Angabe</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ekd.de/liturgische_konferenz/download/Inhaltsverzeichnis_1-2016.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.ekd.de/liturgische_konferenz/download/Inhaltsverzeichnis_1-2016.pdf</a></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hier die Seite auf der diese Links stehen:</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ekd.de/liturgische_konferenz/publikationen/liturgie_und_kultur.html">http://www.ekd.de/liturgische_konferenz/publikationen/liturgie_und_kultur.html</a></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>daraus haben wir gebastelt:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>Aufnahme im PICA-Format</div>
<div> </div>
<div>4170 Liturgie und Kultur$l7. Jahrgang, 1 (2016)</div>
</div>
<div>und im Katalog bekommt der Benutzer zu sehen:</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vzopc4.gbv.de:8080/DB=27/XMLPRS=N/PPN?PPN=857220705"
target="_blank">http://vzopc4.gbv.de:8080/DB=27/XMLPRS=N/PPN?PPN=857220705</a></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Schriftenreihe: Liturgie und Kultur ; 7. Jahrgang, 1
(2016)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Oder soll da stehen:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Schriftenreihe: Liturgie und Kultur ; Jahrgang 7 (2016),
1</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Früher machten wir das so:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Aus</div>
<div>
<div>LITURGIE UND KULTUR</div>
<div>5. Jahrgang 2-2014</div>
<div> </div>
<div>wurde:</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vzopc4.gbv.de:8080/DB=27/XMLPRS=N/PPN?PPN=790750341">http://vzopc4.gbv.de:8080/DB=27/XMLPRS=N/PPN?PPN=790750341</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Schriftenreihe: Liturgie und Kultur ; 5.2014,2</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Was war daran eigentlich schlechter?</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Mit freundlichen Gruessen</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Gerd Witte</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ev.-luth. Oberkirchenrat</div>
<div>Bibliothek</div>
<div>Philosophenweg 1</div>
<div>26121 Oldenburg</div>
<div>Tel. 0441-7701-145</div>
<div>Fax 0441-7701-2199</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 10.0px 5.0px 5.0px 10.0px;padding:
10.0px 0 10.0px 10.0px;border-left: 2.0px solid
rgb(195,217,229);">
<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch,
25. Mai 2016 um 22:29 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Heidrun Wiesenmüller"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wiesenmueller@hdm-stuttgart.de"><wiesenmueller@hdm-stuttgart.de></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rda-l@lists.ala.org">rda-l@lists.ala.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [RDA-L] Numbering of monographic
series</div>
<div>
<div style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
<br>
I must admit that one of the things I worry
about is how it looks for our users in 490 $v.<br>
<br>
Having the publication year in brackets there
does seem superfluous at best and might be
rather confusing. My feeling is that volumes in
monographic series are really only requested
(and quoted) by volume number, if they aren't
asked for by title and author of the volume in
question.<br>
<br>
Note that in Germany we mostly use a
hierarchical description for numbered
monographic series, i.e. there is a separate
record for the series as a whole, and the
records for the individual volumes are linked to
this. I'm aware that the collocating process is
managed differently in Angloamerican catalogs.<br>
<br>
Heidrun<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 25.05.2016 Kevin M Randall wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Is it a
chronological designation? As with most
things regarding to serials, it seems, the
answer is usually "it depends". It
depends on what you mean by chronological
designation, and it also depends on what
the publisher's intent is (if the
publisher is even conscious of what
they're doing to begin with—I wouldn't
argue that they always are...)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">A date
appearing in close proximity with the
numbering would typically be considered
part of the numbering as defined in RDA.
It would then be a "chronological
designation" in the sense of it being a
date designation. But chronological
designation may not always have anything
to do with date/coverage of the content.
It may simply be the date of the issue.
There may in fact be two different date
designations for an issue, <b>in addition
to</b> the publication date: the
issuing date, and the coverage date. I've
several times seen publications that have
an issue with a publication or copyright
date of (for example) 2012, with an issue
date of 2011, and coverage of 2009-2010.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">I'm not
sure I'd worry all that much about it, and
err on the side of including the date
instead of omitting it. Dates appearing
very prominently—either close to the
actual numbering on a source that might
also typically contain publication date,
or perhaps by itself on a source that
typically wouldn't contain publication
date—should probably be considered
"chronological designation".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Kevin
M. Randall</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Principal
Serials Cataloger</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Northwestern
University Libraries</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Northwestern
University</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.library.northwestern.edu"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.library.northwestern.edu">www.library.northwestern.edu</a></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kmr@northwestern.edu">kmr@northwestern.edu</a></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">847.491.2939</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);">Proudly
wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border: none;border-left: solid
blue 1.5pt;padding: 0.0in 0.0in 0.0in
4.0pt;">
<div>
<div style="border: none;border-top: solid
rgb(225,225,225) 1.0pt;padding: 3.0pt
0.0in 0.0in 0.0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Calibri ,
sans-serif;color: windowtext;"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rda-l-request@lists.ala.org">rda-l-request@lists.ala.org</a></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mailto:rda-l-request@lists.ala.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidrun
Wiesenmüller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016
2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rda-l@lists.ala.org">rda-l@lists.ala.org</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RDA-L]
Numbering of monographic series</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Stephen and
John, for your answers.<br>
I got a third anser off-list (by a
serials cataloger who prefers reasoning
B), so practices seem to vary a bit.<br>
<br>
Thanks for pointing me to the LC-PCC PS
for 24.6.1.3, I had been looking in the
wrong place, in chapter 2. Only I don't
find it all that much helpful. The last
bit, which John quoted, seems to say
that chronology should be recorded in
addition to the alphanumeric
designation, but only if it really is a
chronological designation and not a date
of publication ("Be certain not to
confuse a chronological designation with
a publishing date.").<br>
<br>
This brings me right back to the point
where I started - with the question
whether the date really is *meant* as a
chronological designation. John thinks
it is, because of the proximity to the
volume number, but I'm still not quite
convinced. It would be nice having some
examples here.<br>
<br>
Heidrun<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24.05.2016 John Hostage wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:
5.0pt;margin-bottom: 5.0pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri , sans-serif;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">As a serials
cataloger, I lean toward reasoning A.
</span><span style="font-size:
11.0pt;font-family: Wingdings;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">J</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri , sans-serif;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">It’s always a
judgment call as to whether a date
constitutes a chronological
designation for the series, but when
it appears close to the series and not
in the imprint area, that tips it.
PCC practice is to record the date
with the numbering in the series
statement as well as in the access
point (for newly established series).
LC-PCC PS for 24.6.1.3 says “For SARs
being established for the first time
under RDA, include both the numbering
and chronology in the 642 [of the
authority record]. Be certain not to
confuse a chronological designation
with a publishing date.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri , sans-serif;color:
rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">------------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">John Hostage</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">Senior Continuing
Resources Cataloger</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">Harvard
Library--Information and Technical
Services</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">Langdell Hall 194</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">Harvard Law School
Library</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">Cambridge, MA 02138</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hostage@law.harvard.edu">hostage@law.harvard.edu</a></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">+(1)(617) 495-3974
(voice)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Consolas;color:
rgb(31,73,125);">+(1)(617) 496-4409
(fax)<br>
ISNI 0000 0000 4028 0917</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri , sans-serif;color:
rgb(31,73,125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border: none;border-top:
solid rgb(181,196,223) 1.0pt;padding:
3.0pt 0.0in 0.0in 0.0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma ,
sans-serif;color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family: Tahoma ,
sans-serif;color: windowtext;"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rda-l-request@lists.ala.org">rda-l-request@lists.ala.org</a></a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:rda-l-request@lists.ala.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heidrun
Wiesenmüller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 24, 2016
11:17<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rda-l@lists.ala.org">rda-l@lists.ala.org</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RDA-L] Numbering
of monographic series</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>For volumes in a monographic series,
the numbering usually consists only of
an alphanumeric designation, e.g.
"Volume 6" or, in German, "Band 12".
However, it sometimes happens (at least
in German publications) that the year of
publication of the volume is given on
the series title page as well, usually
directly after or below the alphanumeric
designation.</p>
<p>For example, here is the series
information of two volumes in the same
monographic series ("Technical mechanics
series"), given at the head of the t.p.:</p>
<p>Example 1:<br>
Schriftenreihe Technische Mechanik<br>
Band 16 - 2015</p>
<p>Example 2:<br>
Schriftenreihe Technische Mechanik<br>
Band 17 - 2015</p>
<p>The year 2015 is also given in the
imprint area of the two books.</p>
<p>Now my question is whether we should
record the numbering of these volumes in
RDA 2.12.9 as "Band 16 (2015)" and "Band
17 (2015)" respectively, or simply as
"Band 16" and "Band 17".</p>
<p>I think there can be two ways of
reasoning:</p>
<p>Reasoning A:<br>
The year is given close to the
alphanumeric designation on the source
of information, and the presentation
doesn't look any different from
statements which are typical for
journals like "Volume 3, issue 1
January 2015", "Volume 3, issue 2
March 2015", etc. Therefore, "2015"
should be seen as a chronological
designation and recorded in brackets
after the alphanumeric designation,
i.e., "Band 16 (2015)" etc.</p>
<p>Reasoning B:<br>
Although the year is given close to the
alphanumeric designation, it is
nonetheless only meant as the date of
publication and not as a chronological
designation. A chronological designation
is defined in RDA as "numbering (...) <span
class="termdef">presented in the form
of a date" (RDA 2.6.3.1.). That means
that one should be able to infer the
sequence of volumes from the
chronological designation alone, e.g.
"January 2015" comes before "March
2015". But it would not be possible to
infer the sequence of volumes in the
case of the monographic series, as the
same year is given for both volumes.</span></p>
<p><span class="termdef">Personally, I
lean very strongly towards reasoning
B, because I think that - apart from
the case of yearbooks, where the
individual volumes are really defined
as being the volume *for a certain
year* - the year of publication can
never fulfill the function of
numbering for a monographic series to
any degree of certainty. Even if we
had a series where up to now there has
never been more than one volume
published per year, this could easily
change in the very next year (because
it is characteristic for a monographic
series that it doesn't have regular
frequency).</span></p>
<p><span class="termdef">I think that,
from the publisher's point of view,
after or below the volume number is
just a possible position on the
resource where a date of publication
can be given (similar to giving it
close to the edition statement, as we
sometimes find it). So I don't feel
that this information is really
"meant" as part of the numbering. I
also think that repeating the year of
publication in the series statement
wouldn't be helpful for our users.</span></p>
<p><span class="termdef">I've discussed
this and similar cases with several
German colleagues and find that,
interestingly, serials catalogers tend
to prefer reasoning A, while
catalogers who do mostly monographs
tend to prefer reasoning B.</span></p>
<p><span class="termdef">How would you
treat this case? </span></p>
<p><span class="termdef">Heidrun</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>---------------------</pre>
<pre>Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A.</pre>
<pre>Stuttgart Media University</pre>
<pre>Nobelstrasse 10, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany</pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi" target="_blank">www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi</a></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
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<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>---------------------</pre>
<pre>Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A.</pre>
<pre>Stuttgart Media University</pre>
<pre>Nobelstrasse 10, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany</pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature">--
---------------------
Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A.
Stuttgart Media University
Nobelstrasse 10, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi" target="_blank">www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi</a></pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
---------------------
Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmüller M.A.
Hochschule der Medien
Fakultät Information und Kommunikation
Nobelstr. 10, 70569 Stuttgart
Tel. dienstl.: 0711/8923-3188
Tel. Home Office: 0711/36565868
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi">www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi</a></pre>
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